Talk:Great War

see Talk:Great War/Old for original material that occupied this space. Feel free to add your own notes, just sign your name to them.

First Great War

Broad outline

This is a primarily Sarpedon centric war which revolves primarily around Caphirian interests in expansion. This is a war fought between Caphiria, Vachena, and potentially Burgundie against Pelaxia, Cartadania, Veltorina, and potentially Kiravia. There is a small global element here, especially between Burgundie, Caphiria, and Kiravia, but for the most part the big slug matches are on Sarpedon. Maybe Faskano Strait is incorporated, maybe not, but internationally this takes the complexion of maybe the summation of the long-running Kiro-Burgundie colonial wars.

The war ends with the outright annexation of Veltorina and the chastening of Pelaxia and Cartadania. Maybe they lost territory, up to them. Recall at this point Caphiria has the southern area now part of Slak/Once part of Valcenia. Maybe Vachena gets annexed here? That's up to Insui. Caphiria ends with continental hegemony. Pelaxia and Cartadania seek allies abroad to prevent this from happening again, and start looking towards Urcea as part of a broader strategy to surround Caphiria.

Timing considerations

It should feature all the familiar accoutrement of industrialized warfare, so trenches, big howitzers, machine guns, dreadnoughts, etc., but should probably remain a generation before the bigger second war. The original lore of a Great Depression in 1909 and beyond may be a good point for this, so perhaps a 6 year war 1909-1915. It could be earlier to differentiate it from IRL WW1. We don't want to be accused of being derivative.

Second Great War

Broad outline

The overall conflict would primarily be Urcea, Burgundie, Fiannria, Cartadania, and Pelaxia (with the Cape as a cobelligerent) against Caphiria, Faneria, and Crona with Corumm, the Audonian revolutionaries, the Derian revolutionaries being cobelligerents.

This war takes on the broad global characteristics of the current version of the Great War, with Veltorina simply eliminated from the equation. Caphiria's goals here are similar, expanding and maintaining its hegemony by means of conquest of Dorhaven (now Talionia) which it more or less views as the final impediment to its continental dominion. Abroad, the Audonians and Corummese are still interested in defeating Burgundie's influence. The Fin-Fan war will proceed as planned. Accordingly, the first two years present a "siege" situation for Burgundie and Urcea, with Kuhlfros playing his traditional role of supporting the Derians until he needs Urcea. This is all driven by Caphiria, who supports the Derians in order to divert Urcea's attentions to conquer Talionia. This can provide its own spark, or there's a "Capetian angle". A Caphirian-aligned ally in Crona invades the Cape, scaring Cartadania and Pelaxia into creating a formal alliance with Urcea; Caphiria then reacts to this latest example of "Creep" by initiating the Derian uprising with Fanerian assistance. Caphiria need not declare war on Urcea until maybe the second or third year of the war, preparing to build up as Urcea drains more resources and manpower in Dericania.

The rest of the war proceeds basically as planned in the current version of the conflict. Once declared, Caphiria will overrun Dorhaven and begin western offensives, sort of trying to do a "reverse Schlieffen" by knocking Dorhaven out first. Dorhaven will be largely overrun but maybe the peninsula or just the island will hold. Urcea will end up having to do a MacArthur-in-Korea type reclamation, marching up the peninsula gradually. Urcea also opens the southern front where Valcenia used to be and pushes with Pelaxia and Cartadania in the west. Caphiria is now losing by the 7th or 8th year of the war and is on its back foot, but still fighting. A breakthrough on all fronts seems imminent and Caphirian forces collapse in Dorhaven from defending on three fronts. However, as Urcean troops now seem poised to not only liberate the Kingdom but also begin their invasion of Caphiria proper from the east (which threatens Venceia due to its positioning in a way that the western invasions just can't), Caphiria unleashes its secret weapon in year nine. An advanced force of Urcean R&IA troops - not a large contingent by any means, for diplomatic/political reasons I (Urcea) will get into - are annihilated by the first nuclear detonation ever recorded. This should probably be in a small Dorhavener city in order to build enmity between Talionians and Caphirians. The power of this weapon gives Urcea pause and they stop advancing. The Caphirians by this point could not hit Crona, Levantia, or likely even Pelaxia or Cartadania, but they can still use strategic weapons in Dorhaven. While they could have hit a larger formation or bigger city, the bombing was not tactical but strategic - Venceia wanted to make a point and draw people to the negotiating table, not enrage them or strengthen their resolve.

The partition of occupied Caphirian lands proceeds as in the current version of the war, but Caphirian independence is maintained. The League of Nations is created in order to prevent wars like this from happening again, but the whole thing has the air of unfinished business to it, leading to the Cold War. It has been suggested that the LoN form out of an existing wartime organization of the allies intended for this purpose but with Caphiria just grafted onto it as an equal partner. That's a possibility.

Timing considerations

In Levantia, there are a handful of hard dates now that may need to be played into or revised as needed. The abdication of the Burg Emperor in 1920 leads to Urcea being elected to stabilize the situation in the HLE. I don't see any reason why the disorder and chaos in the run up to the war couldn't be elongated, so that 1920 date could remain. In the present canon, the 1927-35 phase of the war leads to the dissolution of the HLE in 1935. I don't know of any real lore that relies on that other than the timing of the 2nd and 3rd Fratricide, but we can just play around with that timeline. The Establishment of the LU/Deric States in 1953 is an important date and coincides with the League's establishment. Generally, the DS could be established a few years earlier without much incident (and should probably predate the LU. The LU is a little more important but maybe a predecessor institution established as a wartime necessity lasts with additional members joining until 1953 when it is fused with the DS and Kuhlfros. Alternatively we could just make the LU be established earlier.

The League of Nations establishment in 1953 is not too important to the lore but some general flavor text dates (including in off-wiki documents) will need to be revised.

The broad issue is with technological advancement. The current GW essentially features industrial warfare ala WW1 with some minor alterations during its early phase, with historical/technological developments in this respect being slightly retarded compared to our timeline but by the time of the war's end the technology is ahead of time. I (Urc) have always liked this complexion. We need not have mere industrial warfare in this one since we are adding a GW, but some "catching up and surpassing" type 2nd Great War is a fundamentally good idea in my view.

There are also some nation-specific considerations. Lots of countries seem to have major changes during wartime, especially Carna and the Cape. I think the Cape's trevails can be well tied into the war, but keeping an "event" happening in the 40s seems like it is deferential to these players.

Lastly, people have expressed interest in a shorter war. I (Urc) agree; 27 years is too long even if the original concept was decent.

Player motivations

Caphiria

ICly and OOCly, Heky has a fixation on Dorhaven. Manipulating the internal affairs of the Derians in order to distract the Urceans to the point where taking Dorhaven is achievable is realistic ICly and OOCly.